‘Cobra Kai’ Creators Explain AI Mr. Miyagi and ‘Back to the Future’ Pitch

[This story contains spoilers from the series finale of Cobra Kai.]

For the the audience of Cobra Kai, and fans of the original Karate Kid films, the trauma, drama and action surrounding the beloved main characters have kept viewers hooked on the Netflix series for six seasons. But for the show’s creators — Josh Heald, Jon Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg — everything had an order to follow in order to reach the series finale’s inevitable conclusion, providing redemption along the way. The Hollywood Reporter recently caught up with the trio of Heald, Hurwitz and Schlossberg to talk about how endings are made, the climatic scene where two infamous villains take their final bow, what it was like to bring back Mr. Miyagi, their meta cameos and that Back to the Future pitch, and whether or not Johnny Lawrence (William Zabka) and Daniel LaRusso (Ralph Macchio) will find a new understanding and possible life-long friendship beyond the final episode of the series.

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In one of our past conversations, you told me that one of the main arcs of the series was the redemption of Johnny Lawrence. Did you always know that the pent-up trauma and hurt between Johnny and Sensei Kreese (Martin Kove) would be the linchpin for the conclusion of the show?

JON HURWITZ That was the scene we knew we were going to do from the very beginning in the very first episode of Cobra Kai. Not only do we see that Johnny experienced the trauma of losing a big karate tournament, but the bigger trauma that he felt — that we showed [in episode 12, “Rattled”] — was the rejection and abuse he experienced from Sensei Kreese in that moment. When we brought Kreese back into the show in the final moments of season one, we knew this was going to be a seasons-long journey between these two men, eventually coming to grips with that moment and their past.  

Over the years, they’ve had a few ups early on, and a lot of downs. It was important to us, not that Johnny ever forgave Kreese, because some of what Kreese did was unforgivable, but for him to come to terms with Kreese and be able to move on. And embrace the parts of himself that Kreese gave him that he still loves, like what he learned in Cobra Kai, only in his own way.

For Kreese, it was important to us that he finally saw the error of his ways. One of the big things that’s talked about in Karate Kid is how there’s no such thing “as bad student, only bad teacher.” We see that with Kreese who himself had a bad teacher. And it’s too little too late, but he finally comes to terms with the fact that some of what he was teaching and some of what he believed was truly toxic, leading to the death of Kwon [played by Brandon H. Lee, in Part 2 of the last season]. So in these final five episodes, to finally genuinely apologize to Johnny was important to us, and eventually for him to even sacrifice himself to help Johnny and the others in the series finale was part of that redemption for Kreese, in as much as you could redeem Kreese. That scene between them in episode was for Johnny to be able to move on.

In episode 13, “Skeletons,” let’s talk about that wild dream of Daniel LaRusso’s that resulted in audiences getting a surprise with the return of an AI-generated Mr. Miyagi coming to stand side-by-side with his former pupil to fight his demons. [Note: To bring back to life the iconic character played by the late Pat Morita, they used a body double, soundalike actor for dialogue, Morita’s voice and AI technology.]

JOSH HEALD The whole journey for Daniel this season has been about unearthing the skeletons in Mr. Miyagi’s closet, or his large trunk in his floor. It’s mostly been a Pandora’s Box of nightmares and question marks for Daniel that has made him start to pick at the idea of, was Mr. Miyagi the good man that I thought he was? It was an important storyline to play out, to treat Mr. Miyagi as a human being. There’s more value in dealing with that complexity than in just continuing to honor the legacy of his character and the way we have season after season. One of the best parts of The Karate Kid was Mr. Miyagi being flawed and getting drunk, and sharing his wounds with Daniel. That bore tremendous fruit into Karate Kid Part 2, as we start to really see the scenes of Mr. Miyagi’s past. That’s the good stuff.

We obviously couldn’t tell a story with Pat Morita while making this series, but we, along with Ralph, were really creating the idea of telling a Daniel and Miyagi story in a new way. The idea that you don’t always know what a parent or a parent figure may have gone through at various points in their life. You don’t have the full story, and the idea that what you might hear, see, or discover that is objectionable on the surface can be frightening.  We were dealing wit  that in real time with Daniel throughout the season. Finally, the moment he’s arrived at that he’s been craving, which you’ll never get true answers but you know he’s having a dream, he’s having a vision now where Mr. Miyagi comes to him at this moment of crisis where he’s battling these demons. He’s battling the skeletons. Every villain from this universe that he’s had a disagreement with over 40 years is echoing throughout his dream. And who’s there, but Mr. Miyagi in a dream form to help kick their ass.

It was really fun to put that together, and really meaningful for us and for Ralph to be able to have a dream-like conversation between these two men. In very few words, “dream Mr. Miyagi” is able to put Daniel at ease and remind us and Daniel of the true power of that relationship. Dropping back into it, it’s not scary anymore. It’s heartwarming and puts him on a path toward his endgame.

I asked William Zabka about the friendship between Johnny and Daniel, and his opinion on how it evolved over the seasons. What is your take on where their friendship will be headed after this series faded to black?

HAYDEN SCHLOSSBERG I think at the end of the story it evolved into the best it could possibly be, which is an Odd Couple relationship. It’s Oscar and Felix as friends. That that’s where it ended up. Along the way, it was a dysfunctional relationship as they tried to combine forces and see each other’s side. They learned through that process, but they realized they are who they are. Each leopard has its own spots, but they see the value in each other. So Johnny is not going to be in Miyagi-do trying to conform. Daniel is not going to be in Cobra Kai trying to conform. They’re each going to teach their students separately their own styles, but teach them to respect the others. That’s what keeps the peace in the Valley of California.

Let’s talk about one of the last scenes in the final episode of the series. Jon and Josh, you two finally make cameo appearances in Cobra Kai, and you’re discussing ideas for an entirely new series — one for Back to the Future. What’s going on there? [Note: The creators suggest making a series based on the movie franchise that is set in an alternate 1985, and throw out star Michael J. Fox to direct.]

HURWITZ Hayden had his appearance in Cobra Kai episode nine this season, playing Terry Silver’s attorney; so, we figured it was only right for the two of us to show up in some way on the show (laughs). It was a little bit less of a stretch for us because we were playing two writer/producer types who are friends, talking about a new idea they had about a piece of 80s IP. It was a meta thing the way we were talking, pulled from the when we were first conceiving Cobra Kai.

But in this in this case, we were discussing a spinoff series of Back to the Future. So it was something that we know will almost certainly never happen, given the point of view of Bob Zemeckis and Bob Gale not wanting there to be another Back to the Future thing or project going forward. That being said, if they happen to watch the final episode of Cobra Kai and then want to hear more, that’s the start of our pitch.

Did Bob Zemeckis and Bob Gale know about this?

HURWITZ (Laughs) They were not aware of this.

Josh, it seemed like the final five episodes focused more on the adults of Cobra Kai than the younger characters, although their storylines were wrapped up. How did you balance that?

HEALD It’s a bell curve of a series. If you go back to the very bones of the beginning, even though we knew we were going to tell this robust story about this younger generation getting pulled into the karate wars, it begins with Johnny and it continues with Daniel. And it eventually grows to get to this place where you’re in episode 10 and you’re caring about Robby [Tanner Buchanan] and Miguel [Xolo Maridueña], who you didn’t know at the top of this series. As we began to wind down and head toward the sunset, we start making room for final moments for every character. So, there are still explosive storylines and resolutions that happen with the younger cast in the final five episodes. But I think the lasting impact, especially as you’re heading into the final episode, is a reminder that the big hanging chads, the big question mark, is what’s going to happen for Johnny and Daniel, and particularlyJohnny.

Daniel might have some unresolved feelings if something goes the wrong way, but he’s got more stability and a stronger foundation in his life than Johnny, who’s finally found himself on solid footing and doesn’t want to slip off. That’s the experience we want to end with. At the beginning of this series you’re with the character who has given up. You know he’s hopeless, and something becomes reignited but it’s a long and arduous journey to ever feel like he’s holding on tightly enough. At the end, he’s finally got a few things, meaningful things, relationships and a potential future, but it feels like it could all slip away in an instant. Living in that moment for that episode, as we head toward the fade out, was the natural place for us to be making room for that.

When Kreese snuck onto Terry Silver (Thomas Ian Griffith)‘s yacht, did he know that was going to be a suicide mission?

SCHLOSSBERG I think he knew that he was ready to do whatever it takes. He was definitely in that Randy Quaid in Independence Day headspace [at the end of the penultimate episode]. There’s no question he’s ready to jump into the volcano to save the world. But we just had built up this rivalry between two villains. Those are always fun: villain versus villain. And it ties to Kreese, his redemption, making a sacrifice for himself. We love the idea that both Terry Silver and John Kreese both feel like they’re going to hell. So, how do you react to that? For Silver, his attitude is, “Well, let’s bring the whole world down with me; let’s burn the world because who cares, I have nothing at stake.” For Kreese, he has this little bit of time to do something right for a change. Even if it doesn’t make him a good guy, it at least helps Johnny and ultimately it does help Johnny win in the end.

The big battle between Johnny and the seemingly invincible Sensei Wolf sets off the beginning of the series finale. We see Johnny begin to sink into his lowest of confidence right before battle. What did he hear or see that brought him back to being badass Johnny?

HURWITZ When you’re entering a final fight, you want the audience to feel the actual tension of what’s going to happen. if we’re all accepting as an audience, “Oh, it doesn’t matter if he win or loses,” then what’s the point? But, as much as Daniel’s words are true on the surface, at the end of the day, we all met Johnny at the beginning of Cobra Kai, and this is a guy who was tortured by having a big loss for 30 something years. The scene with Sensei Wolf in the locker room was to take Johnny, who was entering this fight in a good headspace, and bring him back to the fear and anxiety he had before then — multiplied by 10 because Wolf brings up the idea of the whole world watching, what his loss in a fight like this can do and how even his daughter is going to be called a loser in the future. He throws Johnny completely off balance as Johnny’s entering that final fight. We thought that was really important, so that we’re all feeling the stakes. We hate Wolf more than ever, and we want Johnny to kick his ass! And it’s going to be tough.

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Cobra Kai is now streaming all seasons on Netflix.