Mike Campbell On New Music, Tom Petty, Bob Dylan And More
![Mike Campbell On New Music, Tom Petty, Bob Dylan And More Mike Campbell On New Music, Tom Petty, Bob Dylan And More](https://i0.wp.com/imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/669ee7ffa4996832a024da88/0x0.jpg?format=jpg&crop=1890,1063,x0,y107,safe&height=900&width=1600&fit=bounds&w=780&resize=780,470&ssl=1)
NAPA, CALIFORNIA – MAY 26: Mike Campbell & The Dirty Knobs perform on Day 1 of BottleRock Napa … [+]
For four decades guitarist Mike Campbell had job security in one of the choicest jobs in music. Campbell got to go in the studio and on stage every night with one of the finest frontmen and songwriters in all of music – Rock And Roll Hall of Fame legend Tom Petty.
It was a dream job for a musician who just wanted to play and didn’t need the spotlight. Tragically though, Campbell found himself in the position of far too many musicians who lost a friend first and a band mate second. Following Petty’s death October 2, 2017, Campbell had to figure out how best to continue his music career.
Seven years later, Campbell is now the frontman, leading Mike Campbell and the Dirty Knobs in the studio and on stages every night. The band has a wonderful new album, Vagabonds, Virgins & Misfits and will continue to tour throughout 2024.
I spoke to Campbell about his four-decade journey with Petty, the guests – Graham Nash, Chris Stapleton, Lucinda Williams and fellow Heartbreaker Benmont Tench – on the new album, taking on the role of frontman, songwriting advice he got from Bob Dylan and more.
Steve Baltin: Congratulations, it’s a wonderful record. Was there one song early on that jump started this album?
Mike Campbell: Yeah, I’d just come off a little tour and I wanted to do a song as a thank you to the audience, and I just was quickly thrown together, called “You Are The Greatest.” It was just a kind of thank you to everybody for supporting us. It’s the point of view of singing to the audience. We started with that, it was just a kind of a little psychedelic entrance to the album. Then the other songs started to flow together after that.
Baltin: You’ve played with so many great musicians over the years, and obviously you worked with Tom who was one of the greatest songwriters who ever lived. Are there people that you really enjoyed watching the way they worked or that you’ve learned a lot from?
Campbell: Oh, yeah. Tom, obviously we were shoulder to shoulder for over 40 years. But I’ve been very fortunate to have conversations and work with other people that I greatly admire, such as Bob Dylan. When you’re around someone like that you just kind of watch them. Bob is one of a kind. He’s a very inspired writer. He gave me a tip once, because with the Heartbreakers, a lot of times we were writing a song and Tom or whoever or me, and we would write, get the verses and the chorus and a bridge maybe, and you get three verses and you’re done. Bob says, when you’re writing, don’t stop there. It may be good, but if you got three verses in the song, write 20 verses while the switch is on. Just tap all those thoughts and all those images and stay with that character for longer. You may find, deep into the verses, you would come up with a whole other depth to the character that you would never have done if you’d have settled for the first three things you came up with. So, I do that a lot now. If I’m writing, I’ll write a bunch of verses. Of course, a lot of them I’ll cut out and narrow down to the best ones, but I think that’s a good tip. And, [George] Harrison, I asked Harrison once, when you’re writing, do you have a little cassette player or something to put the idea down so you don’t forget it? He said, “No, I don’t do that. I figure if I can’t remember it later, no one else would’ve either.” I don’t quite agree with that, but it’s a good line [laughter].
Baltin: It is a good line. A lot of times good writing is subconscious. When you go back and look at stuff that you’ve written over the years, do you see these tips manifest themselves in ways that maybe you didn’t realize at the time?
Campbell: That’s a great question. There are two modes of songwriting. There’s the accept the inspiration and grab as much of the magic best as you can and put it down and do the best with it. Then you turn that mind off to some extent and turn on the analytical mathematical mind, and you start working on it and refining it and putting it into a structure. Adding this, taking that out. So there’s the two different parts of your mind that work together to make the song come to life. On this album, it’s interesting because we cut like 25 or 26 songs. Most of them that I had written recently. I was on a roll, but then my wife suggested, “You should go back through some of your analog tapes up in the closet that they’re just sitting there.” I didn’t want to do it, but I took her advice. I have some old two-inch tapes from 15, 20 years ago or more. Half the new album is from those songs, I found some gems that I’ve completely forgotten about. I pulled them out and I thought, “This is better than I thought, this will fit on this album.” So. it’s a combination of new songs and old songs.
Baltin: Are there old ones that you were surprised to see how relevant they are to you today?
Campbell: Both. There were some that were crap, but the ones that were good I thought, “I’m glad I didn’t erase this because I had forgotten about it and now it’s coming back to me and this is really pretty good, holds up over time.” I don’t know, you could write 20 songs and maybe 19 are crap, and there’s one good one in there. But I found quite a few good things from the past, which surprised me. I’d play the tape, it’d start out and I’d go, “I don’t remember this.” Then a guitar part or the voice would come in and go, “Oh, now I remember it. Yeah, this was pretty good.” I guess I was going to come back to it someday. Well, this is the day.”
Baltin: As a fan I’m just curious, one song you wish you could have written, what is it and why?
Campbell: “Like a Rolling Stone,” the first thing that pops to mind. There are so many, but that song had an effect on me when I was, 16 and that came on the radio or something. I thought he was singing about me, and I connected with the character in the song, who was lost and trying to find his way through life. I kind of felt like, “How does he know me?” “Johnny B. Goode” also, I thought that’s about me, the poor kid sitting by the railroad track dreaming about maybe making something someday. Those two songs I just connected with because I felt like the character was me, and I’m thinking, “How does he know me? [laughter].” I wish I had written “Like a Rolling Stone,” just because it’s such a well-crafted song. The rhyme schemes are just humorous at times but clever as hell and full of meaning and the music is exuberant and loose and jammy and very spontaneous sounding.
Baltin: I love that you picked “Johnny B. Goode” though as well because I just had this conversation with Steve Van Zandt. To me, to this day, there’s never been a better rock song than “Johnny B. Goode.” There are songs that are as good, but you can’t write a better rock song.
Campbell: I think you’re probably right. And that’s the first song I learned on the guitar too. I didn’t have a teacher, I just learned it hearing it off the radio, Chuck Berry just had established the style and his lyrics were so good, his images and his descriptions of adjectives of words and the characters were so real and so rock and roll, and so exuberant and full of youth and hope. That song is, “Someday my name will be in lights.” I didn’t know [laughter] at the time, but I felt like the guy sitting by the railroad tracks by a shack, playing along with the rhythm of the train, trying to learn the guitar. That was me at the time. My dreams have come true, fortunately. It is a great song. It’s hard to pick one, but that’s right up there. Yeah.
Baltin: Let’s take this album to the road. What songs are you really excited to play live?
Campbell: You’re right. Some of the songs on this record, like “Don’t Wait Up” and “Shake These Blues” are old songs that I played in clubs, years ago that from before the song was finished. But I know that they’ll translate live on the stage because I’ve done them before in front of people. A lot of the songs have never been played live and I think that some of them will morph into more on the stage. Like there’s this song called “Hands Are Tied,” which is a very interesting song for me because it’s got two different time signatures. It’s kind of jammy and I think there’ll be room in that song to stretch out a little bit and let it morph on the stage and maybe turn into something better or different. But I’m looking forward to playing all of them. We now have three albums of songs on this next tour coming up. I want to play most of the new record, but we’ll have to let go of some of the other songs if you like to make room for these. There are a lot of rockers on the record, a lot of great guitar stuff on the record, and there’s also a couple of good ballads that are more about the lyrics so I’m looking forward to playing them, seeing how people react to them.
Baltin: What were you looking for in the people you work with on this record? I like the fact, too, there’s only a couple of guests, and they’re very selected in there.
Campbell: The guests that come on my record were an afterthought. I cut all the songs as if it was just going to be us. And then I met Graham for an interview, I knew him a little bit, and he did an interview with me, and I got up the courage to ask him if he would sing on one of my tracks, and he said he would. It was an afterthought, but he really made the song great on “Dare to Dream.” Me being a Hollies fan, I still get goosebumps when I hear his voice come in on my song he’s so f**king great. Then Lucinda, I did not know that well, but I had met her and we had been on tour together. I had this song, “Hell or High Water,” that’s kind of a movie, a story with a character that goes through these experiences throughout the song and gets into trouble and tries to find his way out. I was listening to it after I finished it, and I thought this would be better if the female character showed up in the song. I thought of Lucinda, she happened to be in town and she came over and very shyly sang the song. But she did it so good and it made the song ten times better because it’s going along and singing about this girl that he meets, and then she shows up and has her perspective on him. She really did a great job. She’s a sweetheart. She has so much passion and emotion in her voice. Then Chris Stapleton, who I had worked with before, happened to be in town and he came in and sang a verse on a rocker with me and he sang some harmony on this song about giving up alcohol at my old friends. He and I are like brothers. We totally think and feel the same way about music. Then, of course, Benmont Tench came over and played some piano, one take on “Don’t Wait Up,” like some Little Richard stuff at the end, which is absolutely phenomenal. I was thrilled to have him on there. But the guests were kind of afterthoughts I didn’t think of this as a song that has to have so-and-so on it. I’m just trying to make it good on my own. And as I listen to it back, it’s about what can I do better? Another singer might be good.
Baltin: You know what it’s like when you have that chemistry with someone. So for you, how much of a joy is it, whether it’s with Chris or whoever, that you find that camaraderie?
Campbell: Yeah, it’s a new experience for me because for all those decades, I always mostly wrote on my own. I would give Tom the music and we would write that way. And I never wrote with other people. So now I’m opening up a little bit and working with other people because my life has changed with Tom being gone. It’s a little intimidating for me to bring other people into my process, but I find most of the time it works out. Like you said, if you have chemistry and you pick the right person for the right song, it’s very exhilarating. Of course, Tom and I, our thing was very unique and untouchable in its own way. I’m finding it’s a little scary for me to write with other people, but I’m learning how to do it.
Baltin: For most people, as you get older you get more confident, more comfortable with yourself. You were put in this situation which you weren’t necessarily expecting or wanted of now being a front person. Do you feel like it’s something that you could have done at another point?
Campbell: I don’t, I think you’re right. When I was working with Tom, I never had the desire or ambition to go out and establish myself as a singer or front a band. I was in a band, and I learned so much just from being a band with Tom and watching how he worked the stage and engaged the audience. A lot of that stuff I picked up and soaked up from him. And I don’t know at that time if I was ready to take that on, at this point I feel like I am. It’s a new adventure for me. It’s a new chapter in my life and it’s learning and it’s exciting. It’s like starting over with a lot of enthusiasm for something that’s new. And when it works it’s great. It’s very fulfilling in a different way than being just a guitar player in a band.
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