Jenni Konner on the Five-Year Road to ‘Deli Boys’ and ‘Magical’ Result

When asked about the four-year journey to bringing “Deli Boys” to Hulu, executive producer Jenni Konner is quick to fact-check. “I don’t know who told you four, because it’s five,” she told IndieWire.

Konner read the sample that became “Deli Boys” before the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, and had her first meeting with creator Abdullah Saeed during the early days of lockdown. “He had such a hilarious, original voice, nothing like I’ve seen,” Konner said. “It’s a similar way I felt when I met Lena [Dunham], which was just no one’s talking like this. No one [making] something like this.”

“Deli Boys” tells the story of brothers Raj (Saagar Shaikh) and Mir (Asif Ali), whose world is turned upside down after their father dies and turns out to be a Philadelphia drug lord. His corporate DarCo empire is dismantled, leaving the boys in charge of a neighborhood deli — and a whole lot of cocaine. Konner and her producing partner Nora Silver joined during the development process, helping Saeed finesse a pilot that they could pitch to studios and which eventually landed at Onyx Collective. Michelle Nader joined as acting showrunner for production.

“I honestly think showrunner is like a four-person job, and I think making one person the showrunner is very difficult,” Konner said. “So between the three of us, we actually had a real system down. We were there for the whole process and very, very involved in post.”

Konner caught up with IndieWire while on set for “Nobody Wants This” Season 2 to chat about the journey with “Deli Boys” and her obvious, brimming pride for the Hulu series.

The following interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

IndieWire: I love to talk about how you got involved from the beginning, what were the initial stages?

Jenni Konner: So five years ago we got a sample, meaning it was just someone who wanted to staff on a show. And my producing partner Nora Silver and I were like, why isn’t anyone trying to make this? It’s such a good script. So we developed it for a while. We took it out, and we sold it to 20th — this is so crazy, it was Fox 21 then, then it became Touchstone, and then it became 20th. Then we went to a million networks, and honestly no one wanted it, except for Onyx. Tara Duncan loved it and really, really understood it. And and then 100 million [things] — there was a script, there was COVID, there was the strike. It took a very long time, but here we are.

I hear a lot of stories like this one I’m talking to, especially like writers and directors of color, of how much harder it is to get stuff made. Was there a sense of that from your end, when you were trying to get studios involved?

I didn’t feel that at all. What I felt was it was a pretty risky show. There was a lot of violence, a lot of crime, and I think that people were a little afraid of it, because nothing like that existed. And sometimes, if people can’t see it on TV already, or some version of it, they don’t what it is.

So then what appealed to you about the script specifically?

It felt so fresh and really, really specific. I was excited at this idea of telling a family story, this sweet, sweet family story that you could get away with a lot of violence and gore because it was such a sweet story and through a Muslim lens. It’s an immigrant story, without it being the immigrant experience, or about that, It’s very plot heavy, really, with a Muslim lens on it.

That’s a really good way of putting it. So what was the initial meeting with Abdullah like? How did you get to know him to see if he would mesh creatively?

I think it was like the first week or something of COVID. It was right at the beginning and and we just loved him. He was incredibly warm, and I could tell right away he was collaborative. You don’t want to start developing, with someone who doesn’t have a ton of experience, if they don’t feel like they’re going to be open and collaborative. And we knew instantly that he was the kind of person we wanted to work with, because we valued him and he valued us, which is sort of all you need in this kind of building a show from scratch.

What does that look like for you, being the more experienced party, working with someone new? What position do you want to occupy in that relationship, and how do you want to guide them?

When we’re developing the script, it’s a lot of collaborative writing. I don’t do the writing, but a lot of sitting around talking about story and character like I would do in a writer’s room. So it’s sort of the world’s smallest writers room. but then I also think my job is to usher an inexperienced person through the system. You’re in partnership with studios and networks, and we’re very, very lucky that we were had a studio and network here that were really creative partners.

But there’s a way to understand what it’s like to take notes and what it’s like to be in casting and how to talk to people, and how to be a part of marketing and how to talk to actors. There’s no reason he should have known how to do any single of those things, and he wanted to learn. He was a sponge, and he got better and better and better at it.

That’s awesome. And then at one point did Michelle come in, and how did you divide up those responsibilities?

Michelle, I’ve known for a very long time, and has been a friend, and honestly, we tried to get her on like five other shows, and she was always really busy, because she is so good at her job. This one was just magical. The show, in my opinion, has been really blessed. She was magically free, she and Abdullah loved each other so much, and she’s so so good at her job, and we could really divide and conquer and Nora does all the production stuff.

She was the proper showrunner, and we just did everything to support her, would read everything and be on notes calls and be very involved in the process, and we were on stage as well — but it was her room, and she really handled it.

I see you also had Vali (Chandrasekharan) and Nisha (Ganatra) involved on the executive production team, but I know Nisha tends to be more on the directing side. Can you tell me kind of more about their roles?

Vali was an EP during once we got ordered to pilot, and he was very helpful. He was on set every day, he helped us develop, we did a writer’s round table that he ran. And then Nisha is someone, first of all, I’ve known for like, 25 years. I was actually an extra in her student film, and I always love working with her. She really brought the style of the show — pilot directors really set what it’s going to look like and feel like.

She’s also very, very collaborative, which is one of the reasons I love working with her, but I also think the reason I was so excited for her to do this is that she can really elevate a show. There are lots of shows on TV working with the same budget we are that don’t look like this show, and I think she made it seem like a kind of more expensive show than it was. In the pilot, when Lucky (Poorna Jagannathan) shoots Hamza (Faiz SIddique), and there’s just this crazy blood splatter on the boys’ face, and she made the choice that that was the way she was going to show it, rather than show the shooting. And it was such a good, hard, successful joke, and that’s kind of the magic that Nisha can bring. So things are really beautiful, but also actors really, really love her.

She’s so great. I’m her. She has such an amazing career.

I mean, the best. I love her. I mean, truly been working with her forever.

And then you were involved in casting Saagar and Asif, right?

Deeply. Casting is one of my favorite parts of the process. It was a really exciting thing, because the truth is that now in the climate television, especially as it contracts (the business), we’re asked to get celebrities attached a lot. And when you’re looking for Pakistani actors in a very specific age group, there aren’t famous ones. Like Riz Ahmed wasn’t going to do it. So we got the chance to make discoveries, which is very rare. I hadn’t really been able to do that for a while, and it puts you in a really exciting position. With Poorna, who’s always incredible, but this was a part that she hadn’t played. She played a mom a lot, and she played those roles brilliantly, or a best friend, and it was really, really exciting to put her in a lead role, to see how funny she could be, to see how badass to see her in a leather jumpsuit. It was just a dream.

I’m sure you’re seeing some of the reactions already starting, but everyone is is feral for her, and rightly so.

She’s unbelievable. And Brian George, who played the Pakistani guy in “Seinfeld,” now is a really strong lead, so it’s kind of thrilling. I’m sure you’ve seen them around; Saager and Asif are basically in love, and actually brothers and hang out all the time and got really close, and the chemistry is really, really magical.

Oh, that’s very sweet. Since you spent so much time with the show, you know, in development and pre production, all like, Were you on set? And then what did it feel like, if not on set, then even, like, seeing dailies and stuff and kind of just seeing it actually happening?

Well, it’s always the most exciting thing, and that’s the thing about being a writer or an actor, you’re so dependent upon the process, and it’s just very, very satisfying. We had our premiere two nights ago. We finished it a year ago, and Disney and Onyx really had the foresight. It felt like a really long time before we aired, but now I’m so grateful, because it’s a really quiet time in TV, and it’s not like we’re competing with four thousand other shows at this moment. So we waited a long time, and our premiere was just a couple of days ago. Nora kept saying, “I can’t even believe this is happening,” like still is in denial that it’s even coming out. It took a really long time, but worth the wait.

Is there a larger map past Season 1?

Yes, absolutely. I mean, when you’re in a writers room — this is happening in “Nobody Wants This” too — you’re always like, “that’s a really good idea — for next season.” Just great ideas [but it’s] too early to do it, and I think it’s really fun. We have a lot of ideas, and probably 99 percent of them will change, but it’s really fun to have ideas and a vague map for what it might be. Stories it was too soon to tell.

I know that, developmentally, you’re done with the process of pitching the show. But is anyone ever really done pitching a show? I’m going to ask you to pitch it right now for someone who’s gonna boot up their Hulu tomorrow.

I can’t do that. Are you crazy? I didn’t even pitch it when we sold it. I feel like this is Abdullah’s job. It’s a family story that’s a crazy crime comedy, through a Muslim lens. Is that good? Does Muslim lens sound homework-y? Maybe just a family story at its core, with a lot of violence and crime and drugs and fun. I’m not good at this! I’m not an elevator pitch person. Someone can beat it.

You know, you can have a show that is really, really good, and have had the worst time. But this was really lucky, the lucky thing of having a great time writing, a great time on set, a great time editing, and now the world likes it.

“Deli Boys” is now streaming on Hulu.