Pastry Chef Claudia Fleming Changed the Game at Gramercy Tavern and Daily Provisions

Tinfoil Swans Podcast

On this episode

Say the name “Claudia Fleming” and those who know will probably deploy the word “legend.” And if you don’t recognize her name, you have definitely benefitted from her groundbreaking pastry creations and flavor combinations that plenty of people now just take for granted. Original copies of her cookbook, The Last Course, went for huge sums of money on eBay and cookbook stores until it was reissued in 2019, and her book Delectable made pretty much every “best cookbooks of 2022” roundup. Some of the most notable pastry chefs in the game cite her as a mentor and inspiration, and it’s safe to say that she is a huge force in the way we all eat sweets today. And if things go right — it’s going be that way with sandwiches next. Fleming speaks about her days as a ballet dancer, the magic of Gramercy Tavern, getting through tough times, and the privilege of working with freaks. 

Meet our guest

Claudia Fleming won the 2000 James Beard Award for Outstanding Pastry Chef and is the author of the books The Last Course: The Desserts of Gramercy Tavern and Delectable. Before becoming the executive culinary director at Union Square Hospitality Group’s Daily Provisions, Fleming was the co-owner of North Fork Table & Inn with her husband, the late Gerry Hayden, and the opening pastry chef at Gramercy Tavern.

Meet our host

Kat Kinsman is the executive features editor at Food & Wine, author of Hi, Anxiety: Life With a Bad Case of Nerves, host of Food & Wine’s podcast, and founder of Chefs With Issues. Previously, she was the senior food & drinks editor at Extra Crispy, editor-in-chief and editor at large at Tasting Table, and the founding editor of CNN Eatocracy. She won a 2020 IACP Award for Personal Essay/Memoir and has had work included in the 2020 and 2016 editions of The Best American Food Writing. She was nominated for a James Beard Broadcast Award in 2013, won a 2011 EPPY Award for Best Food Website with 1 million unique monthly visitors, and was a finalist in 2012 and 2013. She is a sought-after international keynote speaker and moderator on food culture and mental health in the hospitality industry, and is the former vice chair of the James Beard Journalism Committee.

Highlights from the episode

On being influenced

“Certainly authenticity is very hard to come by when life is perceived in still shots. The experience isn’t there. There’s something about discovering things on your own and not being told where you have to go, other than word of mouth, as opposed to being bombarded by either someone who’s got a ton of money and can afford to bombard you, or someone who’s got a million followers who can influence you because they have a million followers.”

On keeping it simple

“If I had to sum it up, I would say I’m just simple and impactful. I am not a fan of things that don’t belong there, and bells and whistles, or too many flavors. I’m a little more into exploring things and combining things, like a chocolate dessert with several different kinds of chocolate, instead of chocolate, and raspberries, and mint, and caramel, and blah, blah. I’m pretty streamlined. Maybe that’s my lack of talent and confidence — or maybe that is my talent and my confidence.”

On being original

“It’s hard to find something that is completely original. Everything’s a riff on something else, and originality comes from your perspective. It’s not necessarily creating something in a vacuum that’s never been seen or done before. And there’s no shame in, you know, taking heavy inspiration from other people.”

On the impact of Gramercy Tavern

“I think like attracts like, especially in a professional environment. And when you’re as excellent, ambitious, and committed as most people that come through Gramercy Tavern are, you find your professional mate to re-create your vision of what you’ve just experienced and learned. It’s like going to grad school — being able to move on and show the world your vision after absorbing the amazing experience that is Gramercy Tavern.”

On passion and privilege

“I went to a dance conservatory in Connecticut and followed one of my instructors back to New York, I started working in restaurants to pay the rent. It was intense. It was hard, but they were some of the greatest years of my life. You were doing exactly what you wanted to be doing all day long and just got to focus on your craft all day. When you’re passionate about something, being surrounded by like-minded people is such a gift. And really, the restaurant industry is very much like that, right? You’re surrounded by passionate people and you’re all working to a common goal. It’s a privilege.”

About the podcast

Food & Wine has led the conversation around food, drinks, and hospitality in America and around the world since 1978. Tinfoil Swans continues that legacy with a new series of intimate, informative, surprising, and uplifting interviews with the biggest names in the culinary industry, sharing never-before-heard stories about the successes, struggles, and fork-in-the-road moments that made these personalities who they are today.

This season, you’ll hear from icons and innovators like Daniel Boulud, Rodney Scott, Asma Khan, Emeril and E.J. Lagasse, Claudia Fleming, Dave Beran, Dan Giusti, Priya Krishna, Lee Anne Wong, Cody Rigsby, Kevin Gillespie and other special guests going deep with host Kat Kinsman on their formative experiences; the dishes and meals that made them; their joys, doubts and dreams; and what’s on the menu in the future. Tune in for a feast that’ll feed your brain and soul — and plenty of wisdom and quotable morsels to savor.

New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen and follow on: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

These interview excerpts have been edited for clarity.

Editor’s Note: The transcript for download does not go through our standard editorial process and may contain inaccuracies and grammatical errors.