Hester’s remarks ‘horrific’ but not extremist, says Gove – UK politics live | Politics
Michael Gove suggests Tory donor’s comments would not be deemed ‘extremist’
Michael Gove has suggested a Tory donor’s alleged call for an MP to be “shot” would not be referred to the government’s new extremism taskforce, reports the PA.
Businessman Frank Hester is alleged to have said that Diane Abbott, Britain’s first black female MP, made him “want to hate all black women” and that she “should be shot”, in comments the prime minister described as “racist” after initially refusing to do so.
Gove described the remarks as “horrific” but said he was exercising “Christian forgiveness” after the entrepreneur had “shown contrition”. It came as the cabinet minister unveiled the government’s new definition of extremism on Thursday.
Speaking ahead of a speech to the Commons, Gove said it was not up to him to rule whether Hester’s words were extremist. “It is important that any decision about individuals and organisations is taken after a rigorous assessment of evidence and a consistent pattern of behaviour,” he told Times Radio, saying an “expert team of civil servants” would be running that process.
He went on to indicate that “an individual comment” would not be enough to be examined by the team.
The senior Tory told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:
We have to be clear, we’re looking at organisations with a particular ideology. The individual concerned said something that was horrific. I wouldn’t want to conflate those motivated by extremist ideology with an individual comment, however horrific, which has quite rightly been called out and which has quite rightly led to an apology.”
Gove noted that he took “these issues incredibly seriously” as someone who was targeted by an extremist who went on to kill Sir David Amess MP.
Amid continuing calls for the Tories to return the £10m Hester has donated to the party, the communities secretary reiterated the government’s line that Hester’s apology should be accepted.
Asked whether the businessman’s apology was genuine if he did not acknowledge his remarks were racist, Gove told Sky News: “I haven’t spoken to Mr Hester, but I think that when someone says that they are sorry, and I understand he’s deeply sorry for these remarks, then my natural inclination is to exercise Christian forgiveness.”
Abbott has accused the Conservatives and Labour of failing to tackle racism. In newspaper articles on Wednesday, she said the “reluctance to call out racism and sexism” was “shocking, but hardly surprising”, and warned the Conservatives would “play the race card … ruthlessly” at the next election.
Key events
Starmer is speaking at the Guildhall school of music in London. He started his speech by recalling how, as a teenager, he used to come here every Saturday to play the flute. He had a scholarship because he was especially talented.
Starmer said music gave him great opportunties.
My first ever trip abroad was to Malta with the Croydon youth Philharmonic Orchestra. You will know that excitement you feel when you have an encounter with the arts that changes your life. Everyone in the room will know that the sense, I suppose, of being drawn into something that seems bigger than ourselves, of being truly moved by a piece of music, or painting, or a play …
Even now even now, listening to Beethoven or Brahms as I read the Sunday papers, takes the edge off some of the more uncomfortable stories.
Andrew Sparrow
Good morning. I’m Andrew Sparrow, taking over from Amy Sedghi.
Keir Starmer has just started his speech on the arts. Peter Walker has previewed what he will be saying here.
And here is a live feed.
Amy Sedghi
Keir Starmer is about to deliver his speech about Labour’s “access to the arts” plan. There is a live feed on YouTube.
Starmer is also being interviewed by Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 at 12.30pm
Later today, at about 11.30am, communities secretary Michael Gove will present the new extremism definition, which is already being challenged by Muslim groups and experts, in a statement to MPs
Although, government sources have said that groups, that will be effectively cancelled by ministers for falling foul of the new definition, will be named in the coming weeks, Politico are reporting that “Gove looks set to use parliamentary privilege to name a clutch of organisations today”.
Elsewhere, prime minister Rishi Sunak will be conducting five seperate visits with MPs in Gloucestershire today, including a chat with regional media.
There will be more on the subject of Hester’s comments about Abbot, as an increasing number of Conservative peers, including Chris Patten and Stuart Rose, call for the Tory donor’s £10m to be handed back.
And at lunchtime the deputy Labour leader Angela Rayner will face the media today for the first time since news of the sale of her council house when she speaks at a press gallery lunch in the Commons.
That is all from me for today. Andrew Sparrow is now taking over
Michael Gove suggests Tory donor’s comments would not be deemed ‘extremist’
Michael Gove has suggested a Tory donor’s alleged call for an MP to be “shot” would not be referred to the government’s new extremism taskforce, reports the PA.
Businessman Frank Hester is alleged to have said that Diane Abbott, Britain’s first black female MP, made him “want to hate all black women” and that she “should be shot”, in comments the prime minister described as “racist” after initially refusing to do so.
Gove described the remarks as “horrific” but said he was exercising “Christian forgiveness” after the entrepreneur had “shown contrition”. It came as the cabinet minister unveiled the government’s new definition of extremism on Thursday.
Speaking ahead of a speech to the Commons, Gove said it was not up to him to rule whether Hester’s words were extremist. “It is important that any decision about individuals and organisations is taken after a rigorous assessment of evidence and a consistent pattern of behaviour,” he told Times Radio, saying an “expert team of civil servants” would be running that process.
He went on to indicate that “an individual comment” would not be enough to be examined by the team.
The senior Tory told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:
We have to be clear, we’re looking at organisations with a particular ideology. The individual concerned said something that was horrific. I wouldn’t want to conflate those motivated by extremist ideology with an individual comment, however horrific, which has quite rightly been called out and which has quite rightly led to an apology.”
Gove noted that he took “these issues incredibly seriously” as someone who was targeted by an extremist who went on to kill Sir David Amess MP.
Amid continuing calls for the Tories to return the £10m Hester has donated to the party, the communities secretary reiterated the government’s line that Hester’s apology should be accepted.
Asked whether the businessman’s apology was genuine if he did not acknowledge his remarks were racist, Gove told Sky News: “I haven’t spoken to Mr Hester, but I think that when someone says that they are sorry, and I understand he’s deeply sorry for these remarks, then my natural inclination is to exercise Christian forgiveness.”
Abbott has accused the Conservatives and Labour of failing to tackle racism. In newspaper articles on Wednesday, she said the “reluctance to call out racism and sexism” was “shocking, but hardly surprising”, and warned the Conservatives would “play the race card … ruthlessly” at the next election.
Labour say the new government definition for extremism raises more questions than answers
Labour have said the new government definition for extremism raises more questions than answers and is “very unusual”, according to the PA.
Shadow treasury minister Darren Jones told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:
Clearly, there is a cross-party political consensus that hateful extremism is not welcome in our society, should not be tolerated and action should be taken. So we all agree on the starting position.
The slight confusion really is that the government has focused on this definition today, which is not in relation to the counter-extremism strategy, which is now nine years out of date, it’s not an action plan for agencies and others about what action they should take in communities across the country. It’s not even a legal definition.
All it really does is prevent the government from financing organisations or individuals. That rather implies that Michael Gove is worried they’re doing that at the moment, which raises more questions than he’s been able to answer this morning.
Asked if Labour would not adopt the policy, Jones said: “Well it looks like he’s doing it today, and so if we win the next election we will inherit the status quo, but I do have concerns around the process and the checks and balances here.”
“It’s very unusual for officials to make recommendations to Michael Gove … to designate organisations in this way,” he said.
Damien Gayle
Attempts by the government to capture more groups in its official definition of extremism risk fuelling the very extremism it claims to be trying to oppose, Greenpeace UK has said.
Ahead of an expected announcement by Michael Gove on Thursday, Areeba Hamid, joint executive director of the group, warned that shrinking the space for peaceful protesters in the UK would encourage others to go down the path of more destructive and unlawful forms of protest.
Hamid told the Guardian:
Cracking down on peaceful protest won’t help combat extremism, but risks fuelling it instead. The right to protest is the safety valve of a healthy democracy – it provides people with a space to express their dissent peacefully. When you make peaceful, legal protest off limits, you exclude peaceful, law-abiding protesters from the conversation, and give their space to people who are less concerned about peacefulness and legality.
New extremism definition to be published by Michael Gove explained
In their Guardian piece on UK ministers and officials to be banned from contact with groups labelled extremist, Rajeev Syal, Ben Quinn and Daniel Boffey have outlined the new extremism definition to be published by Michael Gove. Here it is:
The new definition, which will be distributed across government and Whitehall, will say: “Extremism is the promotion or advancement of an ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance, that aims to: 1 negate or destroy the fundamental rights and freedoms of others; or 2 undermine, overturn or replace the UK’s system of liberal parliamentary democracy and democratic rights; or 3 intentionally create a permissive environment for others to achieve the results in (1) or (2).”
The previous guidelines, published in 2011, said individuals or groups are only defined as extremist if they show “vocal or active opposition to British fundamental values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and the mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs”.
Bringing communities together should be the “priority” in government, its independent adviser on antisemitism has said, reports the Press Association (PA).
Asked whether the government’s new extremism definition was a mistake, John Mann told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme:
I think that the government needs to listen to people who are advising that the politics of division will not work.
The Jewish community is under tremendous harassment and the hassle at the moment, feels very bombarded by everything.
Bringing communities together is the key role of government, so that should be the priority. There’s certainly been some move in that direction – I think pressures from Conservative backbench MPs are playing out.
But anything that leads to division amongst communities is bad for the country; is bad for the politics of the country.”
Mann, a former Labour MP, said a number of Conservative MPs were concerned that “the politics of division doesn’t work electorally” and that “there isn’t even a voting dividend in doing it”.
Opening summary
Good morning and welcome to today’s politics blog amid the continued fallout from the revelations over Tory donor Frank Hester’s remarks about Diane Abbott.
Last night, in a comment piece for the Guardian, the veteran MP said Hester’s remarks left her “upset but not surprised”, given the amount of racist abuse she receives. Hester said in a 2019 meeting that he did not hate all black women but seeing Abbott on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”. He also said she “should be shot”.
Calls are growing for Rishi Sunak to return £10m donated by Hester, with most voters thinking the Conservatives should hand back the cash and key figures urging the NHS to cut ties with his IT company, TPP.
Meanwhile, the communities secretary, Michael Gove, has been on the morning broadcast round, partly to talk about the government’s new definition of extremism. On Times Radio he declined to say whether Hester could be considered to be an extremist under the incoming rules.
Different people will have different views… It is important that any decision of about individuals and organisations is taken after a rigorous assessment of evidence and a consistent pattern of behaviour.
Asked whether the Conservative party has a racism problem, Gove said:
“I think there are individuals who’ve certainly said things that are unacceptable and racist and that needs to be called out. But again, I also think that if individuals repent, apologise, show contrition, then the right thing to do is to accept that.
After the publication of Hester’s remarks earlier this week, a statement from TPP said he “accepts that he was rude about Diane Abbott in a private meeting several years ago but his criticism had nothing to do with her gender nor colour of skin”. The statement said Hester abhorred racism, “not least because he experienced it as the child of Irish immigrants in the 1970s”.
The statement added: “He rang Diane Abbott twice [on Monday] to try to apologise directly for the hurt he has caused her, and is deeply sorry for his remarks. He wishes to make it clear that he regards racism as a poison which has no place in public life.”
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